Havoc Discussion and Details

[marquart425x]

Second SEF Series event of 2012


..:: Harvest Havoc III ::..
Deadlines - Sept 21 & 28, 2012
Location: CrazyJsPlace.proboards.com
Enry fee: $2 per entry, $5 team, $10 unlimited.

Divisions (all one and done)
Early Deadline:
Mowers
Show and Shine
Outlaws
Grudge Matches
Youth (17 & Under)
**Bonus Point Deadline for full size entries**

Second Deadline
*Compact Team show (teams of two)
*Trucks
*Full Size Team Show (teams of three)

...

[marquart425x]

Havoc
Mowers
1. Mower

Show & Shine
1. 1965 Indy Pace Car Mustang

Outlaws
1. 1962 Electra 225

Youth Division
1. Crown Victoria & Plaque

Grudge Matches
-- Bragging Rights Only --

Compact Teams
Team: Gremlins
1. AMC Gremlin, T-Shirt
2. DVD
3. JB Hobbies gift card $10

Trucks
1. DVD & Shirt
2. JB Hobbies Gift card $10
3. DVD

Full Size
Team: 1976 Caprices, T-Shirt
1. JB Hobbies Gift Card $25 & Shirt
2. '70 Monte Carlo OR Crown Victoria
3. '70 Monte Carlo OR Crown Victoria (whatever wasn't taken by 2nd)
4. JB Hobbies Engine kit
5. Resin Parts Pack (502)
6. JB Hobbies Gift Card $10
7. Season Pass to 2013 Programs
8. Free Pass to Spring Fever
9. 3 spools of colored 9-wire
10. Spool of colored larger-guage wire for rad hoses and fuel line

Most Mangled: DVD
Best of Show 1: Crown Vic
Best of Show 2: 3 spools of 9-wire

[marquart425x]

HARVEST HAVOC
FALL CLASSIC

..:: ABOVE ALL ::..
If it doesn't say you can, then you can't.

If you THINK you can, you SHOULDN'T until you ASK in a public board/forum such as conversation thread, driver's meeting or inspection.

Judges' rulings are final, and they are the ones interpreting the rules and completing the scoring, not the promoter.

..:: JUDGING AND SCORING ::..
All cars will be scored by all judges. After that, penalties/disqualifications will be enacted. Legendary 'Judge 4' will be back for this event; cars found with rule violations, submitted by users that did not use the Driver's Meeting and Inspection threads, will be thrown out with a score of ZERO (but standing segment totals will be included in the final spreadsheet).

Pics must include undercarriage, cab/roll cage and engine. Judges will be instruted: if it cannot be seen, it cannot be scored.

Key in notes in your descriptions; if you have a car that is previously run, be sure to note that (namely, bumpers that are fresh on cars that are damaged).

..:: ELIGIBILITY ::..
All cars from 2009, 2010 and 2011 events will be WELCOME, but not necessarily 'LEGAL.' Cars that were old builds and cars that were previously entered in contests are also WELCOME but not necessarily 'LEGAL.' Make sure the car you enter fits the rules as they are laid out.

PICS: If you are missing pictures for a given category, JUDGES RETAIN THE RIGHT TO GIVE THAT WHOLE CATEGORY ZEROs

..:: For All Havoc Classes ::..

FUEL TANK: If gas tank is above and/or in front of rear-end may remain in stock position. If gas tank is behind rear axle it must be moved to the inside is using stock tank, or may remain if punctured and auxilary tank is inside the car. Must have a kill switch if using an electric fuel pump.

I don't care about gasoline or alcohol. But, if you say it is one and it's not setup right and a judge whacks you - take this as a warning. You won't get zeros, but be smart. Original tanks should be removed, or at least drilled out if you cannot. Tanks should be centered in back seat. Homer posted: 5 DRAIN holes must be in floor around fuel tank. I do like that, it's a neat touch but not mandatory. Electric pumps have always been all right... run a kill switch for accuracy or you'll likely drop a toggle point or two.

EXTERIOR: All glass (excluding windshield) must be removed. Some cars have these things molded into their bodies. Do the best you can, we understand. Vinyl tops can stay, the rest should go. PA allows front windsheild glass to say in stock classes, so go ahead (and leave those inspection and reg stickers in place). Points will be scored higher on vinyl top conversions, and cars that had vinyl tops removed (with that rusted, stringy, adhesive-leftovers look) will be credited. You won't be penalized for a steel top.

ELECTRICAL: Battery(ies) - up to two - may be relocated to driver's compartment, preferably front passenger floor, secured to floor. Solenoids, computers may be relocated. THE CARSON CLAUSE: School bus batteries are allowed, please state this in your description. Advise clear pics of wiring/interior. Make your own terminals/batteries. Should be covered, but for intentions of pics and points, cover not neccessary.

IGNITION SWITCH: Complete ignition switch may be relocated and/or altered; key or toggle switches, open wiring, push button... do whatever, get creative. Clear pics will score better.

COOLING SYSTEM: Maybe bypassed. Cooling systems for oil, transmission, brakes and water can be moved inside car; electric fans are fine; should have a clutch of some sort.

..:: CAR NOTES ::..
Any (American or Foreign) hardtop, station wagon in full-size.

Compacts: same parameters apply to compacts with wheel bases under 110-inches (Four- and 6-cylinder engines only).

Use any make, model, year, body style (limo, hearse, wagon, convertible). Conversions will score better (indicate what it was, and what you turned it into).

Trucks: Any two- or four-wheel drive mini- or full-size truck, van or SUV.

If a car has been PREVIOUSLY run, identify that in the description. Pre-RUN is not the same as Pre-BENT. Pre-BENT is understood to be body preparation for battle. Pre-RUN is understood to be a car which has competed previously in a derby. Indicate repaints. If it has run and then sat around for a year and was merely washed off, then paint would crack somewhere.

..:: DRIVETRAIN ::..
ENGINE/MOTOR MOUNTS: Any motor, any transmission. Mounts at cradle can be welded in position. Run any transmission brace you want. The better built your brace, the better your tranny score. Plain jane, standard trannies will score 5's and under. Braces and cradles will help boost score. Engine mounted pedals, dip sticks, tranny cooler lines, oil cooler lines, hand-throttles, shifters, working shifters, return springs will all help boost score. Run any slider, or any rear. Reinforce if you wish. Run any stacks you wish, any exhaust pattern under the car also allowed (suggest dumping out by front doors).

DISTRIBUTOR PROTECTOR: May have an extention connecting DP and dash bar.

RADIATORS: Any radiator. Suggest ratchet-strapping or wiring in place; it will score better. Relocate if you want to. Run electric fan if you want to. Make sure wiring is dedicated in some way; make sure lines are run, too. Clear pics help.

TRANSMISSION: Mount maybe reinforced. Floor shifters allowed.

EXHAUST: You may run stacks.

TIRES: 2-4-6-8 ply. Dot. Car or Truck tires allowed, along with small implement tires (diggers), heavy-treads and bias ply narrow treads. No wheel weights, or studs on drive wheels. You may seal rim to tire bead, run bead locks and run deflectors on the valve stem. Tubes allowed. In short, any rims, any tires, any technique.

REAR-END: May be welded and leafed with rear end swaps and slider shafts allowed; braces allowed.

STEERING: Swap the shaft, quick connects all right. Multi-u-jointed steering shafts are ok.

..:: FRAME/SUSPENSION ::..

FRAME MODS: You may notch frame or bend the frame. Tilted Fords allowed.

Run your frame of choice; no hitches or whatever, swap mounts, four (4) extra frame-to-body bolts, no need for pucks (but if someone can do it well, it will score). Nothing added to frame. In the event you're custom or scratching a frame, please indicate so. I had a question on a GM frame regarding C-channell vs. box. It was a scratched frame and I didn't care, really. Hot pitched Fords that need to be cut at the crush boxes can be patched.

Furthemore, I'm not getting into the debate of top-welding or seam welding or whatever. You shouldn't plate it (simple derby honesty), and I have seen examples of all right jobs of welding a frame. But it's not going to do a thing, if it is even noticed by the judges. So... do whatever you think is best here. There's creativity in patching rusted spots or bent sections that had to be plated over, but no full plating/adding material. Keep it to one or two spots if you think you need to do that (and if you point it out and you can see it, it might actually score ok). I'm not advocating, but we'll leave room here for those who are looking to be creative. There's no room in this rule to allow a builder to argue their car is stronger than another.

SUSPENSION: Leaf conversions are ok; no arch plates on leafed cars. Arch plates are ALLOWED on cars running coil rears only. Reinforce your tierods, weld the front suspension using flat stock from lower A arm to the frame, and run rod in the front springs if you want. Run rod in the rear through the speaker deck or floor to adjust ride height if you wish (someone please make a good looking mosher this year!!).

CORE SUPPORT: Space it up on the tilted Fords. Allthread the core if you want, and go thru the hood. It will count as a tie down. Wrapping bumper wire around the core support all thread will count as two tie downs.

..:: EXTERIOR/BODY ::..
BODY OVERALL: Feel free to wedge. Feel free to tilt. Feel free to space. Feel free to cross fenders (80s ford nose on a new style body). Conversions encouraged. Feel free to smashtop. Feel free to V-crease, roll, pre-bend. Encourage you to describe your intentions (did this car run last year, sit all winter, get repainted and come back? Did you pre-bend the quarters? Is it a Chevy with a Buick clip?). You can patch holes in doors if this is a pre-run car, and can patch floors that have rusted away.

WHEEL OPENINGS: Wheel wells may be cut, and rolled for tire clearance. Bolts in each wheel lip are acceptable. Wheel openings cannot be covered over with additional metal. Maximum seven per opening.

HOOD: After inspection, hood may be secured in six (6) positions using chain, wire, seatbelts, cable, angle iron, bolts. Front bolts may run through core support or into the core mounts, but will count as hood tie-downs. Chaining of the bumper to/through the hood with chain routed through the hood will count as two of the hood tie-down positions. You may chain bumper to the frame. As a rule, if you aren't sure if it counts: if it crosses/overlaps the hood seam, it counts as a tiedown (chain/wirehood catchers on windows, wire looped through fenders to keep fenders in).

DOORS: May weld all door seams; Chain them shut or strap them shut. Strapping whole door frame shut allowed. May plate (one sheet of metal) over driver's door only if you wish. Window Posts strapped with Diamond plate are fine.

WINDOWS: Front allowed two straps from roof to cowl. If it goes to the hood, it's a tiedown. May run from roof to dashbar, but not from the roll over bar. Sedans/Coupes: Rear window may have a up to 2 pieces of metal from the roof to the floor, or to trunk hinge/seam. May be round tube, box tube, bar, strap or nine-wire. Should extend straight down from rear roofline/window opening. Should not extend to/into/through trunk. Wagons: May wire quarter windows. No metal bolted/chained/welded over window opening extending over rear wheels.

TRUNK/TAILGATE: Maybe secured by welding, or using chain, wire, seatbelts, cable or bolts. Folding, cutting, tucking, wedging, V-creasing is allowed. No plating over the whole trunk. Station wagons/hatchbacks may be sedagoned. Welding/diamond-plate over all seams is allowed.

PAINT: PAINT is important. Single-color bodies won't score well. However, well-done detailed factory paint (aged, faded, rusted) is still your paint and will be recognized. All black cars should have some contrasting color; it is NOT required, but will sacrifice points.

..:: DRIVER COMPARTMENT/CAGES ::..
A pillar - post by front fender to the front doors
B Pillar - between front and rear doors/post to back window on 2dr sedans
C pillar - Between rear door and quarter panel
Kicker - anything extending to the frame with intention or effectiveness in preventing frame movement.
Roof - area between the front and rear windows, and left and right side windows
Interior - area behind the firewall, extending back to and not beyond the speaker deck/back seat frame/trunk hinge mounts/rear window/C pillar.

One bar REQUIRED on all cars behind the seat.

Dash bar from side-to-side behind firewall is allowed; but is optional. Nothing built through the firewall other than dp-dash kicker.

Door bars should not extend beyond the middle of the rear doors; they're also optional. Allowed two downward kickers or supports built off the frame per side (2 left, 2 right). Should go straight down, no angles. Nothing built down to frame can extend beyond the plane of the seat bar (not into trunk or into back seat area). Allowed a roll over bar inside the car.

Halo bars and roll over bars can have nothing extending to or from them, except for the suppor that extends to the door/seat bar(s). A rollover bar is allowed but must be off seat or door bars, nothing extending to the floor, frame, trunk, hood. Seat brace should be against seat, side braces no longer than it takes to hold up seat brace. No door-to-door bars behind the seat bar. Seat bar is the last allowed full-width bar. It should touch the seat.

Fuel tank protectors allowed, as you wish. Build it off the seat bar. Allowed supports to the floor, not the frame (only cage-to-frame connections would be off door bars). Cannot tie into roll bar (interior/exterior) or rear window bars/straps. May touch back seat framework or inner wheel wells. May build off the tank protector upward under roof and inside back window. Free standing tank protectors/fuel cells should be bolted to the floor only, not through the frame.

Exterior: Roll over bar will be built off seat bar, and can lean backward, not extending beyond the roof area. Nothing to be built off the roll over bar or it's vertical supports.

Bars must be on inside of car, excluding halo, window or rollover bars.

*** limited to one roll over bar either in or out of the car, your choice ***

KICKERS: NO Kickers allowed. Not to the core support, not off the roof and to the trunk. No bars allowed outiside the driver's compartment (excluding roll bars). Nothing to the core support or beyond the inner quarters/wheel wells. NO Down tubes or kickers to the core support allowed. Four-door cars using a four-point cage should not have door bars extending beyond the midpoint of the rear doors. Door bars cannot attach to the fuel cell holster/protector.

BUMPERS: Shocks and brackets maybe welded. May interchange car bumpers; cross them over, weld them on, build your own (replicas of a bumper, no 'square tube' or 'box steel' bumpers). Damaged bumpers will carry better than undamaged bumpers. Bumpers with vents can be plated over. Vents that are painted black (like a vent would be in a real car) will probably get positive attention. Go ahead and trim the ends. Put the shocks in the frame if you want. Put washers or nuts on the bumper and string it back to the hood. Chain it to the frame. Weld the chain to the bumper, then back to the frame. But if it crosses the hood seam, it's counting as a tie down.

[marquart425x]

SCORING: We ARE going to do the +7 for first time build or +5 for first time on the site...


**clarified 3/4: you can get the 7 point bonus for Spring Fever b/c no one has had any contests on this site yet. You do not get BOTH 7 and 5. 5 points goes to a car that was in a contest on another site (wecrash, crazyjs) but never on here. Reasoning is this will keep people from entering cars over and over and over, and will push people to build new stuff regularly. You can still enter a car as many times as you want, but it will only get the extra points once per host site.

Example: You run your Havoc Car at Spring Fever: +5 points (old car, 1st time on Scale Demo). You run a new build, never before seen, at Spring Fever: +7 (1st run for the car). You run your Spring Fever car again at Havoc +5 points (2nd run, 1st time on CrazyJs).

[marquart425x]

there's not going to be an age bonus.

There's a few kick backs for helping make the show better - doing mud, using trailers and settings, getting in early... incentives to build new kits. But anyone can do that kind of stuff... more models you build, the better you get. The incentive to keep building new stuff helps stave off high-placing recycled same cars, over and over (people said they got tired of seeing the same car, over and over, right?).

There's already too many divisions. Chain, Weld, Truck, Compact... what have you. I don't want to do a youth derby - not enough builders to support that kind of thing. Thins out the herd too much.

Eveyone had to take their lumps and learn. Some wanted to be No. 1 out of the blocks, and when they weren't, they quit. That's on them.

I'll serve up incentives tokeep things fresh and to reward the people that help the judges by getting in early, and do work (damage, conversions)... but age? No one can help when you got into the hobby or when you were born, lol

[marquart425x]

Divisions (all one and done)
Early Deadline:
Mowers
Show and Shine
Outlaws
Grudge Matches
Youth (17 & Under)
**Bonus Point Deadline for full size entries**

Second Deadline
*Compact Team show (teams of two)
*Trucks
*Full Size Team Show (teams of three)


Read more: scale-demo.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=contests&action=display&thread=406&page=8#ixzz22QFxc1JB

[marquart425x]

Scale Demo - 19 total votes, that's 56%
CrazyJs - 15 total votes, that's 44%.

I'm thinking some people played a bit of a game.

I wanted to see some overwhelming support to move it to Scale Demo - at least 2/3 majority. And many people have told me privately I need to stop doing so much worrying about everything else and just run my program how I want to.

Scale Demo has Clash of the Champions, Havoc is staying put on Js.

And yes, we can do one team, one thread.

This is my final word on the matter. I will not address any questions on the location of HH3 going forward.

[marquart425x]

I've done this before... and I'll do it again. I've been eyeing cars over from past contests. Some people are either getting so wrapped up in details they forget other aspects, or, they've become complacent.

So... here's the challenge:

Some have gotten away from those 'fine' details.

Cars are lacking things like:
Inner Door and Inner roof detail
screw holes, tail light mounts
Headlight buckets
Speaker decks (mount holes?)
sheet metal screws holding skins together (hood)
fender bolts
headlight/fender wrap-around bolts
terminal posts on batteries
body mount bolts (2nd half should be int he car, right?)
nine wire from roof to floor (wagons, anyone? 76 Caprices?)
Ratchet straps behind seats, from passenger a-post to the driver's side, behind the seat...
A toggle switch on the toggle box

Personally, I know I forgot a shifter in a recent car, and didn't seal off the end caps on the bumper I scratch built, nor did I paint them...

NO ONE has done a good job of running all thread through a core support, NO ONE. PERIOD.

...Some are simply not painting white plastic!

This IS Harvest Havoc. And this IS where the best cars show up.

I love the fact, year after year, you all make this THE BEST and THE HARDEST contest to score. Take some time, look at what you've got and find a way to add that extra bit of detail and make your cars pop.

You all never cease to amaze me.
Keep it up.

Thanks for all the support.

[swampfoxmotorsport]

wheres grauge match?

[marquart425x]

Had cars in early:
MadDogs - 63
O4V - all 3
EPR & NFC - 41 & 38
Tonka D - all 3
Hater Nation - all 3* (wagon frame)

Compacts
Backwoods - 224
Derby To me - 2 (63 needs to look at notes)
BigNasty - ^NU

Trucks
Doc

Posts in team threads outline who got what

RMF - nothing, no cars.
United We Stand - nothing, no cars.

[tomtompson]

hate to ask, i am sure its written down some where, but when do we the scores for the Sept 21 contest dates? is it all in the end?

[marquart425x]

all at the end. some of it will not be scored in full due to the short turnout or the cars are elsewhere. We have three judges in two states working on this so we need to compile a lot of stuff.

[derbydude1x]

Good luck everybody all the bad 2 the bone cars are posted up big shout out to marquart thanks for helpin feel out my team owe u 1 buddy !!!!

[punisher]

what time zone is the pics due by?

[modeljunky]

Sept 29, 2012 0:27:59 GMT -5 punisher said:

what time zone is the pics due by?

if u can reply then the thread is still open...lol

[derby114]

not bad turn out , i seen oone late entry. will he still get judged??

[ibuildderbymodels]

good luck to everyone, i wish i could have got my interior detail a bit better but i was just crunched for time, however i was overall happy with my bodywork

[modeljunky]

well i see u can still get ur cars n the boards are not locked yet

[deadman]

ya true but, it also shows the TIME when you post also. sooo I hope they look at the time it was post and go from there. personally if ur pass the deadline then you should be automatically D.Qed

Sept 29, 2012 13:05:47 GMT -5 modeljunky said:

well i see u can still get ur cars n the boards are not locked yet

[Greatsack69]

the deadline was at 3am est.....who the darn passed the deadline? find another way to bring our team down...